Sometimes no matter what you seem to do, no one is buying. What do you do? On todays episode, the guys talk about what to do when you are having trouble making sales. They talk about the struggles of making sales, the importance of learning your audience, and knowing when to switch sales tactics. At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself: Do I move on or keep trying?
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This is a direct transcript. Please forgive any grammar or spelling errors.
Kevin: The more, you try to force something or force money into your pocket. The more it kind of repels away from you.
Jason: Why are we trying to convince people who don’t need it or don’t want it to buy it.
Kevin: go where your customers hang out, hang out there, listen to them, do what they do. You’re going to naturally figure out what they want to hear.
Jen: You’re listening to eCommerce Uncensored with Kevin Monell and Jason Caruso.
Kevin: Thank you for joining us on another episode of eCommerce, Uncensored. My name is Kevin Monell and I’m here with Jason Caruso. I gotta get my, uh, my light on here. I know you got to
Jason: Turn your light on Jen. Jen’s gonna yell at us.
Kevin: Lighting is better. It looks so good now. Don’t I, I look better. Yeah, no,
Jason: There’s nothing that you can do that will make you look better.
Kevin: And it makes me look pale. I gotta get out of this weather, dude.
Jason: Do it. That light has like a softer setting. Cause that’s what my, yeah, I take it off the bright one and you make it like, I’m sorry. Wait, Kevin today. Um, well, not today, but I was on a podcast. I was, uh, on the two X commerce podcast yesterday.
Um, we recorded an episode yesterday. It’s not live yet, um, with Kuhn lay,
Kevin: which is a guy we met at Klaviyo Boston. I know.
Jason: And you know, it’s funny because like when, when Jen, uh, booked this, I didn’t know who the guy was. And then. As I was like getting ready to come on the podcast. I’m like, wait a minute. Is this the guy who we met at Klaviyo Boston?
And I’m sure enough it’s him. And he, he remembered. And,
Kevin: uh, I, uh, good dude. I remember him and I could never remember what the name of his podcast was, but I, you know, we had a nice conversation with him. He was a good dude, really good
Jason: dude. And, um, you know, what’s interesting. Uh, what’s interesting is that.
You know, like he, he, he gets something, he gets me on the podcast. He’s like, and this is Jason cruiser from the very successful e-commerce uncensored podcast that I’m like, all right, well, that’s always a gap, man. He’s like, I listened to your podcast all the time or whatever. Um, it was really cool, but one of the topics that we talked about was.
And this is something that we’re going through right now with the golf business. Right. We just launched this golf business and it took me a few weeks. Right. Or maybe like a few months, few
Jason: Well, several years to really start it, but I’ve been working on it for what? A couple of month and a half
Maybe. Yeah. Okay. I did a sales page. I did all these things. Right. And. So my plan was to do daily emails and I sent out two emails and boom, we got two waters, hot offers,
Kevin: All around high fives are excited, virtual high-fives
Jason: Virtual high fives. We were so excited. And then like I sent four emails since then, and we haven’t gotten one order.
And, um, so yesterday on the podcast we were talking about this idea, cause he was asking me like, Like, what do you do on Facebook? Like how do you run your Facebook ads? Like, do you have like cold traffic and warm traffic and hot traffic and yada, yada yada. And I told them, I look, man, like I know a lot of people talk about that stuff, but I’ve never seen it work.
I’ve never seen it work well, even like hundred million dollar brands, like, uh, uh, like a grand day cosmetics who, um, like
Kevin: Who would it be? Like taking people down.
Jason: I mean, think about all, I mean, think about all of our successful campaigns, even with like rev air, man. We never really did the cold, warm, hot thing.
I mean, we did it in a campaign, but have you ever seen it on? I do.
Kevin: I do break up the ads, so I do get the most out of each campaign. Like I, uh, yeah, right there. Holy smokes. I’m going to pass out. I was coughing like crazy. Um, we do set up the ads in a structure that way. I, um, got the same ads though, speaking to them differently.
Hasn’t really been a thing that has a, oh, they’re the same exact
Jason: Ads in the cold warm, hot.
Kevin: Yeah. The same exact ads. Yeah. Right.
Jason: So, excuse me. So, um, so yeah, so like he was talking to me, he’s like, so how do you, you know, how do you get your ads to work? What do you do? How do you make, like what, what is like your, your process and.
You know, a lot of people, cause I, you know, with this golf business, um, I’m feeling like I’m sure a lot of people do, they get a couple sales and then it like kind of putts out, puts us out and they’re like, they don’t know what to do. And one thing that we spoke about was that, um, like I said to him, I was like, look, I don’t.
I learned like a really important lesson when I was studying or, you know, Copywriting journey. And that is, um, in all the books that I’ve read, they all say the same thing and they all say like, look, your job as a copywriter is not to convince people to buy something that they don’t want, or they don’t desire or need.
Right. People think that our jobs as businesses or as marketers, or as salespeople is to make people buy a product or your product, if they don’t need it or desire it. And w I don’t know where that mentality has come from. It’s it’s probably comes from like, you know, the gurus, like, like they have to like, pretend that they’re teaching you something, so to speak.
But where does that come from? Like, why are we trying to convince people who don’t need it or don’t want it to be?
Kevin: I think that people, because I think that people think that there’s not enough people who, who, who want what, they’re not want, what they’re selling, but like have the problem that they need to solve.
So they feel like they have to branch out to everyone and convince them that they need it. I think that’s part of it. Like they want, they feel like their customers, everybody in a lot of cases when it’s really just the people who need them. It’s as simple as that. And I think that’s where that comes from.
Jason: Yeah. And, and you’re right. I, I think, I think that that’s true. Um, so what I was telling him was that like, look, um, we try our best in all of our Facebook ads, whether it’s for e-commerce or info products or whatever, we’re, whatever we’re doing. Um, or I’m sorry, physical products or digital products or whatever, we try to create compelling ads.
Or compelling offers so that the people who are seeing our ads actually want whatever we’re giving away. Right. They want the information, right? So like you’re just channeling that desire to your product. You’re not trying to convince them to buy something they don’t want or need. You’re simply trying to convince them that what you have is the
Kevin: And the ad is in the ad. You create the ad in a way that it, um, and you know, targeting is a thing you put targeting in Facebook, but really the content that you’re providing is what is kind of pre-framing that person as the person of interest or the person who could potentially want to buy your product.
Right. Right. So you’re going to
Jason: target somebody. Who’s going to see your ad. That is who is going to be attracted by the ad. And that’s a whole another story. Like what kind of creative do you use to use video? Do you use to use images? But the point, the point of our conversation yesterday with, with, um, Coolay is, is that, you know, if something isn’t working, there’s like a good chance.
It’s your offer or it’s not solving a problem that they, that your audience needs, or if you’re working too hard to make people buy something, it probably means that you need to adjust something somewhere because you’re not. You’re not, uh, either getting the right person. This is something we talked about this morning with the golf business.
Uh, we’re running Facebook ads right now to a lead as the objective. Um, and, and maybe these, these people are just not buyers. Maybe we have to do all of our ads with a purchase conversion as the event. Right. So the idea is that people should want what you’re selling. You just need to persuade them that what you’re selling is the answer to their problem.
And it could solve their problem because we all want problems solved. We all, we all buy things, right? So that was like, part of the conversation was like not working too hard to convince people, even though there is a formula, right? Like you do have to convince them to want your thing. You’re not trying to convince them.
I want it.
Kevin: I read a Gary V posted something on Facebook or Instagram or whatever it was. I don’t remember where I saw it, but it was this morning. It was like, it was just, there’s no level of marketing or there’s no level of marketing that will sell a bad product. Right. And I think that goes for the offer right too.
It’s like, it’s hard. It’s harder than. It doesn’t matter how hard you try, if the offer’s bad or the product’s bad, it’s just, it’s not gonna, it’s not going to work. And I think that’s what we get ourselves into. We fall in love with our offer. We think it’s perfect. We think it’s great. And then you get those, um, those couple of orders at the beginning that.
Like gets you excited and you’re like, okay, this is working and you just, you try to force it on everybody. And I think that’s when you get in some trouble and you stop like testing different things and seeing how different messaging works and stuff like that. I mentioned it last week and I think this is another situation where it’s true.
It’s like with the illusion of money book that I was listening to, it’s like the more you try to force something or force money into your pocket, the more it kind of repels away from. It was like, just continue to do what you’re doing. Try different things, try different messaging, try different ads. Um, you can’t force it.
You can’t force people to buy your products.
Jason: And even if you have like a so-so offer or a so-so, uh, product, it’s still shouldn’t be that hard, right? Like it shouldn’t be that hard to convince someone who really need your product, that they should buy yours.
And, and I. I don’t want you guys to think that I’m saying that it’s easy, cause it’s not easy. I mean, you still have to know how to persuade, but, but the way you think about it is different. The way that you’re thinking about how to persuade them is different and the way, and that’s like, you know, this golf business Kev, you know, this Facebook ad that we’re running, um, it’s.
When we first started running it, it’s like we were getting people like, almost like begging us to get on the email list. Like, I don’t know how to get on the email. I was like, what do I gotta do? Leaving comments like that? And that’s because like the ad pique their curiosity so well that, like, it doesn’t matter what the landing page looks like.
In fact, we’re, we’re spending like a hundred dollars a day right now, I think, or close to it on a landing page that is just a form with a title and two w two a.
Kevin: Yeah, because at first you did this whole nice design. It looked really good professional with your picture and everything next to it. And I thought it looked great.
And then I went the other day and I was just like text and a form. And I guess that’s working better because it’s, you’re just finding that right person through the messaging through the, and it’s like the targeting thing on Facebook and trying to find those people, I think is the hardest part. And. For us, it’s almost evolved into no targeting on Facebook.
We’re just putting a message out there and the people who are attracted to it, we’ll find it. We’ll see it. Um, and I think that’s the trickiest part, finding where those people are hanging out. We started for one of our other business. We started using Google ads to just identify those people. Because think about that.
Like, if you could find a person who’s searching for a specific topic, That’s your person, you know, you don’t necessarily have to sell them a product through Google ads. You can just use that as a, as a channel to bring the right person into your kind of ecosystem and then begin to, uh, deliver messaging to them that can then convince them that your products are the right product for them.
Know what I mean?
Jason: Yeah, no, no, that’s right. And I think, um, you know, and, um, This advice that I’m, or this, this topic is like, well, this is what we’re going through right now with the golf business. And what I’m going to be doing is going back to my sales page and I’m going to be. Trying to tighten it up a little bit and make sure that what I’m communicating is actually what the customer wants and needs.
And, um, I think that, uh, sometimes, you know, even like, even like we get caught up in over-complicating things and I think that like simplicity always wins and we talk about that a lot. And I think that, um, I think that I got to, I got to kind of go back to the drawing board a little bit with our sales page and maybe make it a little bit less.
Uh, persuading and a little bit more, just like, here are the facts, you know what I’m saying? Uh,
Kevin: Situations like this, where it gets difficult are when people just like, kind of give up and it’s like, it’s so tricky and we have this other business and I’m doing so many different things. Like I’m doing Google out.
Like I said, I’m using Google ads to bring a person in and then I’m retargeting them on Facebook. And then I’m whatever we have a webinar. We have this whole thing. In motions, it’s almost seems like this is what a sales funnel supposed to look like, all these pieces moving in inside the Facebook ads and in the Google ads and in the email.
And then we get an order this morning from just like an organic search or like, yeah. It’s like, it came from like, how can we scale that we don’t know, but just like continuing to do these kinds of things, organic things begin to happen. And I think you need to stay, stay the path and continue to do those things.
You’re doing the right things to kind of make some adjustments and keep doing it and don’t give up well,
Jason: that’s, and that’s the, one of the things about this golf business that, um, I feel like I. Why I feel like I, I chose to do this at this point, Kev, not only because we want to be in control of our own product, but I think it’s something that I won’t quit on.
You know, like I will force myself to continue doing, because I like to do it. I actually like, I mean, my entire day right now, Is just absorbing as much golf stuff as I can. I drive Jason to school in the morning. I have the golf channel on, in the morning to try to see if I can pick up on anything. Um, not today, but tomorrow I’ll have the golf channel.
I’ll have golf on, on my TV. Now these are things that I would normally do anyway. That’s the beauty, that’s the beauty of it. Right? So that’s why like, you know, my it’s funny cause my wife. I was like, Hey, I just wanna let you know that what this new golf business I’m going to try and be playing golf a little bit more.
Cause I need content, you know? And she’s like, you’ve been playing for 25 years. What do you mean? You don’t have content for 20? I’m like, no, I just don’t remember every story and just like, yeah, this sounds like. I don’t know what she said, but she’s like, you know, like, like this sounds like a scam to me.
Kevin: I gave you the same thing the other day.
You’re like, I need some content, so I’m going to go play golf tomorrow morning. Just roll back with the roll dice. Rolled eyes emoji. He’s like, yeah. My wife said the same thing
Jason: and the funny part about it, man, is like, I know we’re getting off topic here. Um, but the funny thing about it, Kev is like, I know how ridiculous it sounds.
It’s not a lot, like I’m telling you the truth. Like, I, I, you do need to be in it. Like you do need to be doing it. You do need to be coming up with like, I do need to be on the golf course, like, uh, thinking about different scenarios that I got myself in, somebody else got themselves in. I just actually, from the other day that I played golf, I actually have five email.
Um, Topics written on my board just from that one day of golf. So it definitely helps. And I know it sounds crazy, but like, if you do what you love it, it really won’t be. Now I know what you’re saying. Kind of like, when are you gonna be able to do what you love, but we’re getting there.
Kevin: I think it’s a good point.
Jason is for everybody, even though we got off topic, it’s like, go where your customers hang out, hang out there, listen to them, do what they do. And it’s good. You’re going to naturally figure out what they want to hear and what, how to sell it. So don’t just sit around, looking around on Facebook, find out where your customers are hanging out with them.
Jason: and you know, my wife wasn’t buying it didn’t seem like you were buying it, but
Kevin: it’s true though.
Jason: I, it, I mean, it’s, it really is new cause like, like I could sit in my office trying to come up with ideas for the golf business and then just go play and just get five topics. You know what I’m saying?
Like, Um, I, and I know it’s like a four and a half hour thing, but the point, the point is is that like, that’s where I’m getting ideas for things to teach other people. Um, and it’s, it’s, it’s definitely, it’s definitely helpful not to mention I’m playing with guys that are fricking awesome. So it’s like, I learn a lot even from that, but no, not, not quite.
I mean, they’re close, but look, getting back on track. Um, simplicity wins. You know, if you’re giving people or if you’re solving a problem that people are actually looking for a solution for. Then it won’t be as hard as it feels when you’re trying to force something that people don’t want or you’re selling a commodity maybe, or you’re selling like, you know, toilet paper or, you know, um, something like that.
Like, yeah, it’s going to be a little bit more difficult to separate yourself, but, um, You know, if you have a product that is not as popular as say toilet paper or not, not as commoditized as toilet paper, um, then it shouldn’t be so difficult. Like you should be giving people what they, uh, what they need now, the other side of it or what they want and they desire and what they need.
But the other side of it, um, is that I think we forget a lot and I had this conversation yesterday. Uh, Coolay as well. Like you gotta see what’s going on in the world as well. Like right now we’re in the middle of a war in Ukraine and all over TV is like Ukraine, you know, Joe Biden, Ukraine, Joe Biden, like, eh, like all day, every day, people are distracted.
Um, gas prices, $6 a gallon. I mean, So you got to remember that all that plays into how people are spending their money as well. And people, you know, I’m not, I don’t want to get into politics here, but like people don’t think about some of the decisions that they make, how they are going to be effected, um, and how, how your life is going to be affected by the people that we put in.
Empower. And I know they’re on both sides, whether it’s right or left, like, there’s always an excuse for why it happened. Um, but I don’t really care how we got to $6 a gallon we’re here and, uh, it’s going to effect a lot. It’s gonna affect a lot of things, man. I mean, we don’t leave our house too much, so like it’s not really affecting us, but do it.
If I was coming to the office every day and I had, and I had to, I had to fill up twice a week. It’d be $200. Two $4,800 a month just to get to and from work. I mean, yeah. I mean, you
Kevin: know, so I look at it, same thing we went through with COVID all that shit matters. It affects people’s buying behaviors, how they, how they spend their money.
You got to look at it all.
Jason: Yeah, exactly. So, um, I don’t know. I don’t, you know, this was obviously a little bit more of a, uh, You know, like the, like the topic is a little bit, a little bit more general, but it definitely is something that I think is valuable because sometimes we force things to happen. And one last thing, I actually got an email today from Ryan Lee.
I didn’t get it personally from him, but his email today, he basically said sometimes. The product isn’t good. Just let it go. Right. Um, so, you know, that’s a whole nother thing. Like, you know, just maybe what you’re selling, isn’t what your audience or your perceived audience needs. So think about that.
Shouldn’t be as hard as what. And usually when it’s too hard, it means that we’re forcing something. Now that doesn’t mean that you don’t try, you don’t give it your all, but it does mean that you gotta be able to shift gears. You gotta be able to move quickly. You gotta be able to change your direction quickly.
Um, and that you only could do that by trying. I mean, we. The process, right? Trusting the process. This is a whole nother thing I’ve been thinking a lot about because of the golf business I’ve been thinking about, just trust the process, just keep doing this and eventually I’ll figure it out. Eventually I’ll figure it out.
It’s just, just can’t give up.
Kevin: So right on. Because you didn’t. Let me talk about it at the beginning. I want to talk about it now. It’s okay. You run out, you were in a hurry to get started, so
Jason: that’s okay. You asked me, you said once I do the intro, I want you to like jump in. So I, I didn’t know if you were done. Cause we started talking about something else.
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