The guys have marriage counselor Dr. Lee Baucom on the show for some entrepreneurial marriage boot camp. With Dr. Baucom, the guys go through the difficulties of being an entrepreneur and having a spouse. Just being a typical entrepreneur, it can be a slippery slope to make your spouse feel that your business is more important than them. Dr. Lee gives some habits, tricks, and actionable tips that you can apply to your own relationships.
This is a direct transcript. Please forgive any grammar or spelling errors.
Dr. Lee Baucom: I mean, the number one threat to marriages is the pause button.
Jason: Some of the other things that we experienced as entrepreneurs, right? Like there’s not just the business side. There’s not just the business piece of this, right? Like everything else is affected, whether it’s kids, whether it’s your wife or your husband
Dr. Lee Baucom: the spouse, I would often say, I feel like their business is their mistress
Jen: e-commerce uncensored with Kevin Monell and Jason’s Caruso.
Kevin: Hey everyone. And thank you for joining us. On another episode of e-commerce uncensored. My name is Kevin Monell and I’m here with Jason Caruso. Today. We are joined with Lee Baucom PhD, and he’s going to talk to, he’s going to talk with us today about marriage and entrepreneurship. And that’s kind of been, we have kind of had a theme, a relationship theme over the last few weeks.
Kevin: We’re getting pretty deep Jason in this podcast. Yeah.
Jason: I mean, I’m, you know, I’m not really like a therapy kind of guy, but I can definitely, as we talked to him, I can definitely see a place for hearing alternative advice.
Kevin: Yeah, because entrepreneurs are just so stuck in their bubble. And I mean, all men really, I think women, whatever, he can get stuck in their bubble and like not see an outside perspective.
Kevin: And I think it’s important. And, uh, I think he has some, some really good points. So here’s our interview with Lee Bolcom.
Hey Lee, how you doing today? Thank you so much for joining us,
Dr. Lee Baucom:Kevin. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be with both of you. You’re a podcast is excellent podcast. I’ve always listened to the episodes. And I think the last two are kind of leaning into this one. So let’s, let’s jump into this perfectly. Thanks so much.
Jason: Yeah, man. Thank you. Thanks for, thanks for being here. We, um, you know, we’ve always talked about execution on this podcast about how to execute. You know, email or open, uh, you know, like subject lines or Facebook ads or, or whatever.
Jason: And, um, you know, as of, I guess the last couple of podcasts we have been trying to kind of, I don’t want to say shift gears, but we’re trying to talk about like some of the other things that we experienced as entrepreneurs, right? Like there’s not just the business side. There’s not just, you know, um, The business piece of this, right?
Jason: Like everything else is affected, whether it’s kids, whether it’s your wife or your husband or whatever. So I think that, uh, this episode with you is kind of just another extension of those recent podcasts, um, about, you know,
Dr. Lee Baucom: juggling a marriage and a business.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Yeah. In fact, I think that one of the challenges for entrepreneurs is what leads a lot of people into being an entrepreneur is about this freedom thing.Right. They want to have some freedom in life and freedom of money, freedom of time too. And sometimes that ends up being something we then give away. Um, and then the cost is to our primary relationships. And then this one in marriage.
Jason: Yeah. I mean, we w we were talking, it’s funny. Cause we, we were talking about this, uh, On one on, I don’t know if this is the last one, the podcast before, like we were talking about how your business will take up as Ezra Firestone, who we had on this podcast, who I think everybody knows, um, basically said like, look, your business will take as much time of, uh, of yours as you’ll give it.
Jason: And it’s just something that’s always stuck with me since he said that. And it’s so interesting. It’s like your business will never say no, like you can make you
Dr. Lee Baucom: go like that, which has a lots of implications with marriage. Right? Right. Exactly.
Jason: It’ll never, it’ll never say like, Hey, get off the computer and go hang out with your family.
Jason: You know? So, and it’s definitely something I struggle with because personally, you know, I feel like my part in this is so much more important than like, like, I feel like us eating and having a roof over our shoulders is the most important thing. But you know, taking care of the kids is my wife’s most important thing.
Jason: Right. And like juggling those two things I think is a real challenge.
Dr. Lee Baucom: It’s interesting. The way you frame that is kind of like a divide and conquer kind of thing. Like you’ve got your thing, I’ve got my thing. And, and sometimes what happens with that division is, especially with entrepreneurs is that division gets to be bigger and bigger and more and more separate because the divide Cochrane means you keep spreading apart.
Dr. Lee Baucom: You’re going further a field. If you can use the conquer thing, you know, where you’re conquering next keeps being further and further away from oftentimes family. And certainly to marriage,
Kevin: And I think for sure, it’s like, uh, I think the entrepreneur and I, and I didn’t actually, when I first graduated college, I didn’t think I was necessarily entrepreneur.
Kevin: Like I thought I was just gonna go into the workforce. I was going to work for this company as a freelancer for this company and it just kind of evolved. And I, and I started to grow that entrepreneurial, uh, attitude, which is a mindset for me. You’re still learning. Right. Thanks Jason. Again, thank you so much for everything you’ve done for me, Jason.
Kevin: Thanks for reminding me
Dr. Lee Baucom: sitting at the knee of the master. Right.
Jason: Just making
Kevin: sure, like I dragged you out of the gutter, Jason, sit back and listen. All right. All right. So it’s like, it’s like that, that entrepreneurial mindset is so like, It gets it, it kills you sometimes. And it kills me. And I know it kills Jason cause just like those, those thoughts about business and about doing the next thing are always there.
Kevin: When, like your family’s like sitting there, like, Hey, I’m over here too. Like, or my, or my wife, like, Hey, I used to Jason used to kill me for it too. When I used to like be stuck in front of a computer when we had to go to the office and I would just like lock in on the computer from nine 30 in the morning to like 6, 6 30, 7 o’clock at night and I’d just be staring and my wife would call me in the middle of the day and I’d be like, yeah.
Kevin: And she’d be like, you’re not listening to anything I’m saying, aren’t you? She’s like, yeah, yeah, of course I am. And then of course I would not retain anything she ever said. And I fell into that trap of like, ha at least I recognize that I have that problem, but it’s still, even though you recognize it, it’s still such a hard thing
Dr. Lee Baucom: to get away from.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So one of the things that I’ve heard over and over and I’ve worked with, um, so just background wise, um, I, for 30 years I’ve been working with couples. And during that time, I didn’t think of myself as an entrepreneur. It took a while for me to realize that even having, you know, like a doctor can be very entrepreneurial in their practice for me, a therapist can be very entrepreneurial in their practice.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And so that led me to do a lot of things like consulting with family businesses and closely held companies that would have me come in, not to deal with the business, but to deal with the family and the family business. And that often included the founder, And that marriage, the founder’s marriage. And I began to see these repeated patterns and repeated phrasings where the spouses would often say, I feel like their business is their mistress.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Yeah. And that, that began mistress or actual
Jason: wife. Yeah, my wife is my actal mistress.
Dr. Lee Baucom: mistress. But if you notice most people with a mistress treat their mistress a little better than they do their wife. So let’s just be clear about that. So who, I mean, if, if the screen is in front of you, Kevin, for you, if the screens in front of you and you’re, you’re hearing from your wife, who’s, who’s getting the primary attention .
Dr. Lee Baucom: That’s that screen. Right? And so, as, as Ezra Firestone said, you know, never says, no, the screen is always there. It’s always waiting for you and is always kind of giving you that, that dopamine hit, um, that, you know, get a little excited by the business stuff or get a little scared about the business stuff.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And either one it’s going to captivate your attention. Yeah. And the other
Jason: thing is like, I think that we are taught as entrepreneurs that you have to quote unquote hustle, right? Like you got to have Gary Vaynerchuks out there who, I don’t have anything personally against Gary. And I know a lot of people love him, but I, as I’ve matured in my business sense and my business, um, I feel like I’ve gotten into business for what you said is like to have the freedom.
Jason: And then like now that I’m in it, I don’t take advantage of the freedom. So to speak. And so I don’t quite think hustling 24 hours a day, seven days a week is healthy. I don’t think it’s healthy for your family. I don’t think it’s healthy for you personally. Um, so I don’t really subscribe to that. I used to, but I think like now as I’ve matured in this whole thing, like I realized that jumping on my computer on Sunday afternoon to make myself feel better about my entrepreneurial ism or whatever.
Jason: Um, it doesn’t really make that big of a deal in my business, like jumping on on Sunday and like answering emails. It’s it’s not going to bring me more money or bring me more stability, or I’m not going to do anything with that other than take away from my family.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Well, but you still get the hit, right? I mean, you get the dopamine hit and, and especially in a lot of times when a marriage has become more difficult, because, you know, if you’ve got two paths, one is to go, I’m going to deal with this relationship issue.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And the other is I’m going to go do what I always know makes me feel better dealing with my business. You know, you, you kind of naturally follow the path of least resistance and that often leaves the relationship because relationships have some, you know, some pieces in there that require maintenance and conflict, um, that you have to be able to move forward.
Dr. Lee Baucom: It was kind of interesting you, your episode on partnership, you know, it kind of laid out some of the pieces about marriage. And one of the things that you two talked about is the role of conflict. And that that comes up and a business partnership and it comes up in marriage. Um, I think one of the things I would add as a model for that is that conflict is fine.
Dr. Lee Baucom: It’s just that conflict needs to be in service of whatever relationship, the business partnership or the marriage. And sometimes people lose the fact that that’s that’s the, the nature of con should be the nature of conflict in partnerships, whether they’re marriage or business. I think the problem,
Kevin: like, I think we mentioned it too on our last podcast is that, you know, when we, when Jason and I have those conflicts and maybe it was off recording, I don’t remember.
Kevin: But when we have those conflicts, it’s like, when we get off the phone, like 10 minutes later, he’s calling me, I’d be like, yeah, let’s talk about this next thing. When you fight with your wife, um, it’s like, it’s still there the next day and it’s still there the next day until you address it again. You know what I think the
Dr. Lee Baucom: differences between you two having a conflict or heated discussion, whatever it is, and one with your spouse.
Kevin: Yeah. I don’t, I don’t really know. I can’t answer that question. I it’s,
Jason: well, I, I think I can, I think like I am not, you know, Kevin and I are working on the same thing and I don’t think my wife necessarily understands what I go through on a day to day basis. So Kevin does, so Kevin knows that we’re on phone calls all day, that we’re dealing with clients all day, that we’re dealing with our personal businesses all day.
Jason: He knows what I’m going through, where I don’t necessarily think my wife quite. Understands what Kevin and I have to do for her to keep Amazon in business.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Okay. So can we make that arrival there? There’s there’s one step back, right? Here’s the step back when you two are having a discussion in business, there is a clear goal, right?
Dr. Lee Baucom: And when I worked with, um, family businesses, this is one of the things I started talking about is the fact that a family business is a hybrid of two different, um, systems, the family system and the business system. And the number one goal of a business is profit. Number one goal of a family is relationships and love.
Dr. Lee Baucom: What’s easier to define though profit or relationship and funds. So if you’re having a discussion, a difficult time, you probably are both trying to get to the same end point. You may have a different view of how to get there, but you’re very clear. There’s a very defined piece you’re going after you have the, uh, kind of the, the welfare of the business at hand, right?
Dr. Lee Baucom: So that’s, that makes it that conflict, but let’s take that into your marriage. If you take one step back, you both are trying to get to, I mean, it’s the same thing, your partners in life, you’re trying to get through life. And so, whatever conflict you have, you have a common goal. As is true with many couples, they’ve lost track of the fact that they both have a common goal of let’s get through life and let’s be in relationship and loving.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So while it’s not as clearly defined as it may be when you two are talking and you take one step back and it’s exactly the same, but that’s one of the traps that we often fall into. We forget that.
Jason: Yeah, that’s it, that’s really interesting because I think, I think that is a hundred percent accurate. Like I do think that like we are trying to raise our kids the best that we can.
Jason: We’re trying to offer them the best life that we can. Um, you know, I look at it more as a disciplinary thing. She looks at it more like buying the kids. Things that’ll make them happy, but the idea is that we are trying to do the same thing, but, you know, and I, I do think that, um, You know, the difference is, and I don’t, this is not with everybody, but I know like with Kevin and I it’s, it’s emotional, but it’s not emotional.
Jason: Right. Like we are emotionally charged, but our conflict isn’t emotional. So we’re not like, you know, you know, it’s not like lingering around. It just kind of goes away because it’s just like, you know, whatever, like,
Kevin: you know what I mean on to the next thing onto the next thing? Yeah.
Jason: Um, and I think one thing, like I find is like, um, you know, we’ll, if we really get like annoyed at each other, like.
Jason: The next day, it’s like,
Kevin: it’s like, it doesn’t even come up and give me the silent treatment for like the rest of the day or something like that. Or he’ll send me like a snarky text. Sure. Knowing
Jason: what can I say? You’re like an annoying marriage.
Kevin: This isn’t about partnership right now.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Right. But it’s interesting how many skills are the same?
Dr. Lee Baucom: It is,
Jason: you know, it is. I think, I think, um, you know, when I, I think there’s also some animosity between, um, giving the business time and not giving the wife time. Right? Like, it’s like you give this business all of your tender, love and care, but you don’t necessarily like, I mean, let, let me, let me, let me speak for Kevin.
Jason: Right? Like back in the day, um, I would call him up at 10 o’clock at night and he’d be with his wife watching TV with his laptop. Right. Like, oh, I’m just working on is one thing on the website. My wife has a show on and I’m having a drink and he’s not really hanging out with her. Oh,
Kevin: it’s, it’s still similar.
Kevin: I don’t like necessarily suit my laptop. It was still, we still sit there and stare at our phones. Like after the kids go to bed, we’re like, okay, fine. Let’s get a drink. And then we just sit there with our heads down on our phones and I’m like, what the fuck are we doing? And I’m like, I’m like, checking my email.
Kevin: Like you said, you’re getting that hit. Right. Even like the negative stuff, like I’m looking, I’m waiting for that client to be some kind of asshole or something. At some point that I get that I don’t know what it is. I’m like searching for that negative. And positive reaction from, from anybody than my email and
Dr. Lee Baucom: which, by the way, both of those are dopamine hits, right.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Positive or negative.
Kevin: And like Jason said earlier, it’s like that 15 minutes. And I’m looking at my checking, my email, like, is it really worth the time while my wife’s looking at Amazon and things like that? Like, when you think about it, like you talk about like long-term goals and like where you both want to be at the end of, of life or whatever you want to call it.
Kevin: It’s like, and it freaks me out sometimes because I think about it a lot. And it’s like, when the time comes, the kids are gone, the business is gone. Probably not gone, but maybe moved on to another phase where you’re not involved, you’re retired. And then you’re back to just the two of you again. And that, you know, that’s a scary thing to me because you put so much time, but we’re not even talking about kids right now.
Kevin: You’re talking, you’re putting so much time into your kids. You’re putting so much time into your business and then they’re gone and you’re like, oh shit. Okay. What do we do now? And that’s, that’s a scary thought.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So I talk about the, the pause button marriage, which is what you’re describing, you know, I mean, at some point and you get married, I mean, why do you get married?
Dr. Lee Baucom: Because you love with this person. You want to spend your life with them, you get married. And right after that, you hit the pause button for lots of reasons. You have kids. Okay. We’ll get back to each other when the kids are, and then, and it’s always an extension or when the business gets to a certain level.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So you can say, yeah, we’ll get back to it. When the kids are finally a little self-sufficient or out of diapers or in school or at a school, or graduated from college or married. I mean, you know, it always is a little bit further down the line and the business, you know, once we get to a sustainable level, then we’ll get back to each other.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And once we have this much, you know, it’s always something just out there. And the idea is that lots of people believe as you can hit the pause button, get to wherever you need to unpause it and go right back to the relation. But those moments that you’re talking about, where you’re sitting in front of the TV and you both are on your devices, they are kind of the living proof that Paul’s, doesn’t really work.
Dr. Lee Baucom: That, that what happens in the Paul, I mean, any relationship is either growing or receding and there is no. There’s no pause to it. Uh, if you’ve got a friend somewhere that you’re not in constant communication with, it’s on a decline, you know, you, you might be able to get back together and it’s like old times, but there’s so much that is lost in that, that you just can’t pause a relationship.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And so what you’re actually doing is leading to disconnection. And for me, I mean the number one threat to marriages is the pause button. We think we’ll get back to it. And then we unpause it and we’re like, who are you? Who have we become in this? Who are you? What’s important to us, which is why we are now seeing a lot of people getting to kind of the bright before retirement or even, uh, th there are several different, um, kind of points of higher divorce.
Dr. Lee Baucom: One is when the kids leave the house, that’s a big one because now it’s the nest and you’re facing again. The next one is retirement or a big change in life. You know, one of you decides you want to relocate. Those are two, those are distress points because you suddenly want await it’s us again. And you may realize that the us began to evaporate somewhere right after pause.
Kevin: So how do you prevent hitting that pause button when you have so many things going on? Like, I don’t see. It’s almost like I don’t see any other option, but, you know, hidden. I don’t, I wouldn’t say that me and my wife necessarily hit the pause button at some points we have, but how do you avoid doing
Dr. Lee Baucom: that?
Dr. Lee Baucom: So part of connection happens on a daily basis. I mean, updating each other on what’s going on in life, you know, I mean, as much as you think your spouse has, may be fairly disinterested in a deep dive in your business, knowing what your day has been like can be a connecting moment. But part of this is also a sense of empathy, which it’s interesting.
Dr. Lee Baucom: People often tell me, well, I’m not an empathetic person. I hear this a lot from business people. I’m not a particularly empathetic person. The fact is empathy is a skill set that you can learn. And it’s also an active piece of saying, you know, I’m going to figure out what’s important to my spouse. Cause it’s easy to make assumptions.
Dr. Lee Baucom: All they want to do is spend the money or whatever it is. And that is a place we can kind of reclaim and say, you know what? I want to sit down and say, Hey, what was, what was your day about? I mean, you don’t want to know the, all the nitty gritty of every instance, but. Having a higher viewpoint is a connecting thing.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Uh, making sure that you’re taking time to gather it’s another big one, you know, making sure that it’s not all about being with the kids or, you know, centered around the kids, but taking time for each other, um, and finding some places that you might have some common interests. I think a big one is actually just making sure that you have some vision of where you both want to go in front of you.
Dr. Lee Baucom: I mean, we do this in business all the time, right. And we have vision statements and core value statements and all of this. And then we forget to do that with the marriage and say, where, where do we want things to go? How do we want to move it along?
Jason: So, so let me ask you a question, because I think about this a lot and I don’t mean to make this a strictly husband and wife thing, because I think that times are changing.
Jason: And I do think that there are more women coming into entrepreneurship, which is, which is great. Um, But how much of you do, how much of this conflict between entrepreneurship and your marriage and how much of this is just that men are from Mars? Women are from Mars. Men are from, or from whatever the book is
Dr. Lee Baucom: like, how
Jason: much of it is that?
Jason: Like, we’re just different creatures because I don’t feel like my wife has a financial burden. Are are a burden to support our kids financially, but her burden is to support them emotionally. And, um, and that side of things. So like how much is this conflict that we’re just built differently?
Dr. Lee Baucom: Yeah. So I try to use the term spouse because I really, I don’t think it needs to be, um, hell yeah.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Gender. Right. And so, um, so here here’s some observation, um, it’s not true across the board, but it tends to be more often that in the entrepreneurial world, men have a harder time balancing. Uh, their marriage and their family than women do. And I think part of that is just still some societal norms and other things that’s not true across the board.
Dr. Lee Baucom: There are women who are as married to their job as any man. And, um, and so that, you know, we’re watching kind of a transformation, but I do think that there just because of kind of the competitive nature, I mean, if, if we just look at it, men are still kind of raised to be more competitive. That’s still changing, but still tends to be.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And so a lot of men get into entrepreneurship and hit that competitive, you know, they take their competitiveness and they’re like, I’m going to win it. And women tend to be a much more about the relationships and about the, the whole, and so they might have more coalitions that they work on in their marriage.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And so they already have a different mindset going in again. Broad strokes, what we know. And this is an interesting kind of thing. It’s hard to figure out who is more likely to get divorced, but from what research there is, entrepreneurs are somewhere between eight and 10 times or eight and 10% more likely to divorce than the general population.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So that tells us that there’s something that’s embedded in that. Now the difficulty with that is it’s saying, what is an entrepreneur, right? I mean, that, there’s a loose category there, but if we use what data, we have eight to 10% higher than the general population. So that puts it north of 50%. So I’m
Jason: going to say something here that may, um, I don’t, this is actually, uh, something that I observed and I think maybe this may have a little bit to do with it.
Jason: And I don’t know, I’m just, this is like a hunch. Like I think women. Generally speaking are just better at focusing and compar compartmentalizing their lives. Like I just, I just felt for whatever reason, like, I feel like men are just like 150% balls in, on one thing. And then like everything else, you got to leave them alone about like women tend to be like, I mean, I could even see it with like people who like work for us.
Jason: Right. Like women are just, they’re just so much better at like they’re, they’re on top of things, they’re they, they seem like they just focus and concentrate more on the thing they’re doing right now. Whereas I feel like I’m all over the place and like, I’m, I’m not as focused, I would say. And I don’t know how much of that is just my own thing, but I just feel like I’ve, that’s what I’ve experienced.
Jason: You know, like they always say like, like men can’t, um, multitask, multitask, and we’re when we’re women can. And I’ll be honest with you. Like, I, I do feel like there is some truth to that.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Yeah. So, um, most, uh, most people think that men are better at compartmentalizing than women. For sure. Um, so part of what that leads to is that there are oftentimes that men can say, oh, you know what, I’m going to leave this mess over here because I would rather be in this mess over here.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And so if there’s a difficulty, uh, here, you know, dealing with kids, dealing with, uh, the spouse mop, just going to go over here to my job and pull into that. And. Act like that’s not going on. Um, and so women do a better job generally of balancing the relationships, um, that, uh, you know, wherever that comes from, whether it’s venous or socialization or whatever it is, um, being able to balance those relationships.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And also the fact is, you know, if you look at, um, how still, how in the household jobs are divided up, women who are entrepreneurial still carry a large load of the household duties and men who are entrepreneurial tend to carry far less. If you look at just the statistics. Yeah. I’ve done my shift. The rest of it is up to, you know,
Jason: I know I’m talking a lot here, but as we’re talking about this, um, I, you know, I, we, we kind of rushed into this conversation.
Jason: Um, you’ve actually wrote the book on these things, right? Quote, unquote, the book. I mean, how many books do you have
Dr. Lee Baucom: out on this stuff? So I’ve got seven books total, but, um, four of them on relationships and, and then a couple of online programs because, um, you know, what I also realized is we have lots of ways we need to take in information and learn.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Um, but yeah, I mean, I’ve been, uh, doing the work for 30 years and realized early on that, the way we were trying to fix relationships wasn’t particularly effective. Um, so I’ve been trying to do, um, kind of a step back and going, okay, what can we do as individuals to change some things?
Kevin: Yeah. I have a question. We’re going back to the marriage time because the, um, the thing I struggle with sometimes, and the fact that I’m like, you know, hustling all the time and I’m working and I’m trying to spend as much time with the kids is like, whenever I have, I actually wrote it down here. Cause I wanted to remember to talk to you about it is like, I call it like the free time guilt that I have for myself.
Kevin: Like my wife, when I started, uh, when we had kids, my wife stayed home and she stayed with the kids. She spent the entire day with the kids. She took care of the house. She did everything to make sure the house was perfect. And then I would go to work and then, you know, I’d get the opportunity to say, to go play golf.
Kevin: Jason will say, if I asked Jason, he’ll say, I’m not allowed to, like, if I say I can’t go, oh, Kevin’s fine.
Dr. Lee Baucom: You’re not,
Kevin: but in actuality, it’s more of like, I feel like I need to stay home because I haven’t been there. Or, uh, I shouldn’t, she’s been with the kids all week and I should be home with them to give her some relief.
Kevin: So I ended up not going and I just have that in the back of my head. And it’s just constantly there. I
Jason: feel guilty that she feels like she has to jump on the computer and start doing work with your clients. Cause like, that’s how I look at it. I’m like when she wants to go do something, she just does it.
Jason: I just didn’t go, go do it. I’ll watch the kids. I don’t think you look at it the other way. Like, I don’t really care. I mean, I’m not like when I got married, we didn’t like do the handcuffs. We did a ring. Right. So, you know, you’re not in jail when you get married. So I feel like you should do things that you love to do.
Jason: My wife, I tell her all the time, go do things, go decompress, go find something that you enjoy doing. And because I want to go do things that I enjoy doing. So. I that’s just the way I do it. It’s like, if I want to play golf on Saturday, I’ll like, tell my wife, Hey, like I’ll watch the kids and you can go do something with one of your friends or, or something.
Jason: I mean, I, I don’t know. I feel like it’s kind of like a quick fix, easy fix.
Kevin: Yeah. I mean, it’s, I think it’s probably a healthy thing for everybody to have their own things that they love to do outside of the house, without their partner, without their family and stuff like that. Just like, I can’t help it.
Kevin: Like, I can’t like help looking at my phone when I don’t need to look at my phone. It’s like, kind of like that kind of thing. Yeah.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So they’re what I’ve watched. And, and Jason, you’re what you started down. Was we negotiate? That’s basically what you’re doing. Um, if she needs to go somewhere, there is the other, so there’s extreme.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So Kevin, your thing is wherever you are, you probably feel a little bit of guilt. You know, if I’m at work too long, then I feel guilty. I’m not getting. Th the home, the stuff, if I’m at home, then I feel guilty about at work. And then if I’m going and doing something now I feel guilty all around. And, um, so that part of that is, um, built into the I’m going to feel guilt wherever I am, which basically means you’re never where you are, right.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Your head is partly somewhere else. Yeah. When I’m playing, even
Kevin: when I do end up going play golf, like I have a hard time, like enjoying myself. I mean, after I have a couple of beers, I’ve been all right. But
Jason: I don’t quite enjoy being at where you either when you’re playing golf, because you’re like not there.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Yeah. Yeah. Which means that nobody’s getting the best of you. Yeah. Right. And so part of that is dealing with that internal struggle of, can I, wherever I am, can, I mean, if I’m at work, can I really just be at work and not feel guilty about that when I’m at home? Can I just be at home and be present with my spouse, my kids, all of that.
Dr. Lee Baucom: When I’m out having a good time, can I just be doing that? But what’s required of that is. What Jason we talked about is making sure it’s a negotiated understanding. And because a lot of marriages get messed up by expectations, hidden or are open expectations. I expect you to do this, or you think someone expects you to do this rather than agreement.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And so in agreement, Jason is, Hey, is it okay if I, and that’s not really asking permission as much as can we agree to how this works out? I’m I go playing golf on Saturday? Would that be okay if you want to go somewhere, I’m happy to watch the kids. There’s an agreement that’s built into that. And if, if you’re doing that piece then, and you’re still feeling guilty, Kevin that’s, that’s probably outside of the relationship piece more than just your motivation ends up being about guilt.
Dr. Lee Baucom: The danger is it. When we justify, um, that I did my shift at work, everything else is your problem. And we don’t take into account that there might be some need to balance that that’s, that’s the danger of.
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Jason: Well, I think what Kevin failed to do is have a contract like I do. I have a golf
Kevin: cart and negotiation at all. It was just like Jessica, I’m playing golf on site. No, no, no, that’s not what I said.
Jason: This is what I said. Lee Lee, you are Dr. Lee. You are the expert in this. Okay.
Jason: When you go into a business agreement, you have a contract, right? Okay. So when my wife and I got, we met, we were talking about getting married and stuff. I said, look, here’s the deal. Every Saturday I play golf. Every October, I go to Myrtle beach to play golf. The L the other six days and 11 months, I’ll do whatever you want me to do.
Jason: But if you have a problem, we playing golf on Saturdays and going to Myrtle beach in October. I’m not your man. And since, and this is, I joke, I joke about this clear, it’s clear, like, that’s the thing. So I went on two or three golf trips this year and you know what she said to me, she goes, we got to go back to the original concept, not even October
Dr. Lee Baucom: one.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Cause I just got your contract. Yeah. I just got back
Jason: from him. I just got back from Hilton head and then I’m going, my dad’s coming down and Kevin’s coming down to play in a golf to play, to play golf. And then I’m going to, um, Arizona to play golf again. So she’s like, it’s like, we got to get next year.
Jason: We’re going back to our original contract October, um, and Saturdays. But the point is, is like, I make a joke about. But I will tell you, we’ve never fought about me playing golf on Saturday or going to Myrtle beach in October. In fact, my son was born on September 8th, 2013 on October 13th, 2013, I was in Myrtle beach.
Jason: Um, I had the trip I paid for the trip. I really couldn’t cancel it. But the point of the matter is, you know, that was clear in the beginning before we were married, before we committed before we did any of this, that’s what I do. It’s what I like to do. It’s I enjoy doing it. She’s welcome to do whatever she wants to do.
Jason: I will never tell her she can’t do something. She just does whatever she wants, but those are my.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Stipulations. And the fact that you started that from the outside and most couples don’t do that. Right? And, and so sometimes those are lurking back there, those expectations, or they suddenly emerge and you, you hear somebody announce, this is what’s going to happen.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And that’s a tough one, but you you’re very clear. This is who I am. This is what I love. Um, that, that was, that is in many ways in agreement, right? Because she could have said, no, I don’t agree to that. And you know, you would have had that at the outset. So, um, that actually, I mean, you, obviously, you can abuse that if you choose to, but you basically set a clear expectation.
Dr. Lee Baucom: This is where I’m going to be. This is what I’m going to be doing. You’ve got to decide if that’s okay.
Kevin: It doesn’t, that doesn’t that like on the surface just seemed like, okay, golf is more important than my relationship.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Well, except for the point was for 11 months and six days a week and 11 months out of the year.
Dr. Lee Baucom: No. Right. I’m carving out this. And I really do think that, I mean, my wife, I hear lots of people say, you know, you should have to do everything with your spouse. If you don’t love doing everything with your spouse, something’s wrong. My wife is not a water person. I am. So, um, she’s fine with me going paddleboarding and scuba diving and whatever else, but she’s not going to be with me because that is not her thing.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And I’m not going to, you know, expect her to be, she has her things that I am not interested in. Uh, and the question is how we negotiate that, uh, not whether we have different, um, interests and it’s not about, um, making something more important as much as saying that there are important things in life.
Dr. Lee Baucom: The same thing could be said with, well, aren’t you making business more important than the marriage? And most people would say, well, This is what fuels our lifestyle. So we found a balance. Yeah.
Jason: And I think that, you know, I, I agree with you leave because I’m the same way. Like, I, I am not, I don’t have to be attached at the hip at all times with, with my spouse.
Jason: It didn’t matter what relationship I was in. I just, it’s just not how I feel like it’s healthy to have outside things that you can
Dr. Lee Baucom: come back and talk about. Like,
Jason: Hey, I went to the golf course today. I played badly. Uh, the weather was like, I feel like that could be healthy rather than like experiencing everything together and having nothing to talk about.
Jason: I just don’t agree with it. I know some of the old people. Like I say older people, but I mean like, so Kevin’s, um, in-laws are like, are like the old Italian people. Like they just they’re they’re they’re, they’re like these, um, they’re, they’re Russians and they’re very much family and they’re very much like they do everything together.
Jason: And likewise, my Italian family is the same way. I just happen not to be that way. I don’t, I don’t like to be. Someone 24 7. I don’t care who it is. I want to do things. I like to do things on my own. I like to have other
Dr. Lee Baucom: extremes. So the research shows that the most successful marriages have a combination of where you have the, the energy between you.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And you’re also both bringing outside energy. The ones that have struggle are kind of what are called superglue marriages, you know, matching shirts. We eat everything just to like, we do everything just to like, we, you know, all, everything is just the same because there’s no energy coming in or on the other end, they do, they have nothing together.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So they only have their external energy, uh, nothing shared between them. Those are the two danger points. So having something where, and then it’s figuring out what equation that fits for both of you, but having a place where you have connection together. Plus you’re bringing in some outside interest and energy from it.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Even if you don’t talk about it, the fact that you come back jazzed up or calm down from down on the golf course, Feeds into the relationship in many ways. Well, also I
Jason: think from a mental health standpoint, like I’ve been like going through this, this mortgage for the past 60 days, I there’s been ups and downs and like, I’ve been really stressed out.
Jason: I have been very distracted and I haven’t been able to concentrate on things. I’ve been like to a point where I’ve had constant headaches and my stomach is constantly just hurting me for no reason, just because I’m just stressed out. And I went away to Hilton head this past weekend and I normally check my emails.
Jason: I normally interact on slack. I normally do those things. I just needed a break and I needed to just get away from it. And I didn’t do any of that. And I’ll tell you, man, like I came back and I feel so much better. I feel so much more energized and revitalized. And I do feel like a sense of like, you know, relief.
Jason: Um, and I, I think sometimes like from like Kevin. You know, he’s, uh, he very much wants to make sure everybody is happy once. I don’t want to call him a people pleaser. Cause that’s not how I would describe it. Well, he wants to make sure his wife’s happy. He wants to make sure his kids are happy. He wants to make sure are like, and I think that sometimes he suffers for that instead
Kevin: of like the reverse effect of actually what I’m going for.
Kevin: It actually hurts the relationship. Instead of hurts the business. It hurts the relationship. Both things get suffer from it.
Dr. Lee Baucom: You need a break,
Jason: you need a, just a break from everything and you need to just go do things that you truly enjoy doing. And I’m not happier anywhere else than on the golf course. I mean, look, does that sound bad?
Jason: Yeah. Like I love my kids and I want to be at my kids, but I do love playing golf. It’s like, it’s a passion of mine. So it helps for sure.
Kevin: Are you free? Are you finished with that? Uh, lead to Jackson. Go ahead. Go ahead. Um, I just had a question about like, what you felt like was, is it important and how much do you think your spouse should be involved in the business?
Kevin: Not, not like the depths of that, but like, so when I get done with my day and I’ve been through the ringer, I’ve been on the phone for God knows how long with these, this client, that client or whatever it may be or partners or whatever. I just want to like, not talk about it. So like when the question comes up, how was your day?
Kevin: She was like, yeah, it was. And she knows it’s bullshit. She knows. I mean, especially now because I’m home in my office, she can pretty much hear what I’m saying for the, uh, sometimes how important is that to like DeVaul is like, yeah, I had this like pain in the ass thing go down, or Jason was an asshole today.
Kevin: Again, uh, things like that, like how important is that?
Dr. Lee Baucom: I say that over and over it just daily report.
Kevin: She knows that I have to say it.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So I think the bigger thing to that is it depends on your business does affect your life, your family life, your resources. Right? And so I think sometimes what ends up happening is entrepreneurs, um, see the storm coming and they either don’t want to talk about it because they’ve had enough of it or they don’t want to worry us about.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And in the process, they cut off the teamwork, you know, we’re in this together. And so, um, one of the things I’ve often had is somebody who coming in when a business hits a skid and the spouse is like, I had no idea that we were headed for this because the spouse was either not wanting to talk about it or avoiding the scare.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So I think there is a basic level, at least a basic level of going, you know, let’s, let me just kind of let you know where we are good or bad. So they have some idea of that. The rest of that depends on the combination of you and your spouse. Um, the danger is I see some business relationships where it ends up the spouse has kind of like the, they want to be the, um, the business consultant without being the consultant.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So they always have, um, advice for how you should do things and an expectation you’re going to listen to them. And that’s where I think that there, there has to be some agreement on the separation that that’s not a spousal thing. Yeah. I think
Kevin: it’s funny you say that. Cause that’s what I was going through my head.
Kevin: I’m like, honestly, it’s like sometimes, like I think she knows me so well that like, if I told her certain things, I would get the advice that I don’t want to hear, I guess. And that’s why it’s kind of maybe left off
Jason: well side of it is like, it’s not fair to your business partner because your business partner isn’t in business with her, right.
Jason: Your business partners in business with you. Right? So like my, my buddy, he’s just saying this all the time. I’m not in business with my business partner’s wife. So he’s like, he, he had to tell his, his business partner, like, look, I like your wife. I love your wife, but that’s not my partner. So I don’t want her opinions.
Jason: I don’t want her, you know, I don’t want her to, to, to tell or influence you on doing things because th th this is our business, right. Like, and I know that’s probably kinda cold, but I do think there is some validity to that because at like, I, my decisions in this business, like, even if my wife does give me her opinion, like, Kevin’s my partner in this.
Dr. Lee Baucom: You know what I mean? Yeah. I think what is, so for me, I don’t have a partner and much about, I have some pieces of that, but for the most part, I don’t have a business partner. And so sometimes I will say, Hey, just wondering what you think about this. What I know from my wife is that she is going to be, um, a hundred percent supportive of what I’m doing as part of that, as part of a good relationship, a hundred percent supportive doesn’t mean that she’s going to say everything’s a good idea.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And so sometimes she’ll say. You know that here’s where I think that sounds bad. And that there’ve been a lot of times when I won, I fought, you know, I haven’t had that thought because entrepreneurs tend to be, um, a little bit optimistic about their, their dream, whatever idea they had, they fall in love with it, which is how you push forward.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So well, and so for me, sometimes it’s a good anchor point to go, Hey, you know, what do you think about this? And many times she’ll say, Hey, I think that’s a great idea. Or her bare minimum is, is this going to sink the ship? You know, is there, this is something that could take us down and if I go, no, she’ll go, okay.
Dr. Lee Baucom: How bad at then? But you know, it’s at least a sounding board. Um, what she doesn’t do is she doesn’t give me direct advice about how to do business as much as, as a sounding board as being supportive.
Jason: But isn’t, it also depends on where you are also, like your kids are out of the house.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Uh, well, I mean, until COVID yeah,
Jason: I guess the point is like, you know, I, uh, I feel like my wife is so wrapped up in the kids.
Jason: Like when I tell her things about the business, she’s just say, oh yeah, that’s nice. That’s cool. Like, you know, like she doesn’t really get involved in it, but like, I can definitely see her give me her opinion if she wasn’t wrapped up with the kids.
Dr. Lee Baucom: No. So this has been true throughout our relationship.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Well, I mean, the, for the first few years I was in grad school. Um, and then after that I was establishing a practice and, and so not so much about that, but I mean businesses over two decades now. So she’s had plenty of time with the kids at home to do that. And it basically is me saying, Hey, I’d like to talk to you about this.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Can we go get deserved? Can we, I mean, in other words, let’s find a place where it’s outside of the kids. Um, because. And there is that place where you want to maintain that because if all of her life is wrapped up in the kids and all your life is wrapped up in the business, there is a significant piece missing of the two of you being in connection with each other.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And we’re right back to that pause button. Right. And we’re back to what we do to make sure it doesn’t happen.
Jason: So Lee, we, um, we’ve been going for what, almost an hour here, half, 45 minutes
Jason: or so 45 minutes. What is your, do you have, because I think that people and I didn’t read all your books. I didn’t read
Dr. Lee Baucom: you didn’t really,
Jason: I haven’t read any of your books, quite frankly.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Not all of them.
Jason: Um, my, my question to you is like,
Dr. Lee Baucom: well, if it makes you
Jason: feel any better, I don’t, I’ve read probably five books in my entire life. They’re all like in my, in this closet over here. And they’re all like, uh, mark marketing books, all five of them. Um, but I listened to a lot of books. I have, I listened, I listened to, but also I’ve, I’ve started this new thing where now I listen and read at the same time, so that it’s stored in two different places in my brain.
Jason: And I re retain it a little bit better. That’s good stuff. That’s a whole nother story. Um, which I’m sure you can talk about, but do you have, um, like a list of, I don’t want to say a list, but like, do you have like some bullet points that, um, Maybe some people that are like, struggling with like, are there any things that like, I know, like for me, um, like these conversations are great and, and like, people I’m sure get a lot out of it, but like, for me, like I like, like, okay, you know, do this, do this, do this.
Jason: Like, I like to be told sort of actionable items, actionable items, like, what are the, do you have like a list of things that maybe people, um, like how they can balance their business and their marriage. And because I know that I told you this back back a few days ago, or maybe a week ago, or whenever I was like, you know, like, I feel like what I’m doing is the most important thing for the business and she, or sorry for the family.
Jason: And she feels like what she’s doing is the most important thing for the family. So how do we, how do we succeed in this? Like how, what are the kinds of things that we can work on or, or, or, uh, like, do you have like. From nine to five, be on the computer, eight to six, be on the computer at six o’clock. Don’t look at it again.
Jason: Do you have any, like in, in, in all these years of writing these books, do you have any of those type things that we can, um, maybe leave off word or end off with?
Dr. Lee Baucom: So first one would be a slight change. In your perspective, you said the most important thing is, you know, from a business, the most important thing for her, for his kids, I would change that to a very important thing.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Is this a very important thing she does is that, and you’re both exactly right. I mean, when I said you divide and conquer, I don’t mean that the other alternative is you both just, you know, you take care of the kids and she takes care of the kids. You do business. She does miss this, how you divide up the family structure, um, the changes to go, okay, what we’re doing, both of us have a very important task.
Dr. Lee Baucom: The most important task is for us as a team to be moving forward through life. So that’s kind of the change in perspective. It’s kind of interesting. You ask this because, um, I’ve worked on a new program. It’s called the husband. And, um, what I try to lay out is the fact that there are skills of relationship that I think a lot of men are, um, tend to go.
Dr. Lee Baucom: You either have it, or you don’t. And, um, and it’s kind of interesting. We do that with the relationships because we don’t do that. And most of the rest of life, I mean, if you said, you know, I want to be a better at golf. You wouldn’t say, well, either you’re good at golf or not, and you go, Hey, maybe I’ll go get some lessons from the golf fro.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Right. I’ll get better at that. And that’s the growth mindset, um, that there are some things that we can do some skills. So when you ask those pieces, there are some skills like of building empathy, of dealing with conflict. Um, and then there are some processes like having a vision statement. Um, so one of the things that I think is important is for a couple, to have a clear vision statement of where do they want to go.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And, um, that is a nice connecting activity. To do, uh, as a couple. So you can kind of say, Hey, I would like to do this. Would you be interested in doing that with me? Usually spouses, happy to have a better vision statement of where you’re going. So, you know, you start building that.
Jason: Yeah. Like you said, with the, like the whole thing with, uh, like business and like having a vision statement or a vision board, you know, I, um, I don’t know if you’re a religious guy or not, but my father, um, is I grew up as a born again, Christian.
Jason: Um, although my, my mouth doesn’t always reflect that. Um, but you know, it’s interesting to me because we always hear like in the church that divorce in a church. Is like, what if like nationwide it’s 50% of divorce marriages get divorced. Supposedly there’s like some small, small number of people in the church that get divorced and what I’m like, kinda like, um, and I was like, was like, okay, well, yeah, that kinda makes sense.
Jason: But like, now that like we’re talking about this, like, it makes sense because like, you both have this godly thing that you’re both working towards, that you’re both care about, that you both put at the top of your marriage, so it makes you play on the same team. So to speak, which kind of talks about kind of talks to a lot of these things that we’re talking about.
Jason: Whereas like, if you don’t have a goal that you work on together, if you don’t have a belief system that you work on together, everything falls over. And it’s kind of like making sense to me, like why godly houses. It doesn’t matter what religion it is. Any religion why godly houses tend to last longer.
Jason: And I think it’s because of this vision board.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Having a joint idea of where you’re going. You have, I had a, uh, I have a buddy who talks about as being relationship velocity. You know, you’re both kind of going the same direction at a similar speed is what he thinks is as being a part of successful marriage, you have this velocity towards this goal.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And, um, and, and so being clear about the goals certainly helps for me. I mean, if you break it down, every marriage has to get to being a week. Like we are in this together. We are a team which transcends it being you, me kind of thinking. And, uh, and so, you know, so one of the things I’ve talked to when, when I’ve talked about, uh, With entrepreneurs about marriage is how marriage is like a company and nothing like a business.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So it’s like a company because you, you know, uh, we is this kind of place you hold in your mind, like a company, the company is fiction. I mean, it’s an on paper, right? The state says, oh, that’s a separate entity. Now you’ve created this corporation, this company, just like they said, when you signed your marriage license, you’re now a different thing.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And this entity of being a we. And so, and in many ways, it’s like that. If you treat your company, like it’s something, you, you, you have give it a name and you have the papers that show that, and you start talking about our company, the company, it becomes more and more real. The more you talk about us and we as the partnership, the more it becomes real, the problem is entrepreneurs.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Then go, okay, well then we’ll treat it like a business. You know, it’s very transient. And, uh, it’s it’s relational. And so, um, where it breaks down is when entrepreneurs get used to the, um, there’s a transaction piece to this that we, we lose the there’s a relational piece. It’s not you do this and I get to do this, right.
Dr. Lee Baucom: That’s a you me, but we are trying to get through life together. How do we support each other to do that?
Kevin: That’s great. Yeah. I don’t know about you, Jason, but I feel like, I feel like when we were getting an invoice in our email after this hour of counseling that we just got, what is
Jason: this? Uh, so ourselves, what about a little bit about the husband bootcamp?
Dr. Lee Baucom: Yeah, so it’s, yeah, it’s an online program. Um, and, uh, it’s what we try to do. What I try to do is create it so that you can take it in, in multiple ways. So it’s a video course, but also the audio. So, you know, busy, busy entrepreneur or busy, whatever can listen, can just listen to the audio while you’re hopefully not working and hopefully not with your spouse, but you know, maybe taking a walk or exercising or you can watch the video and take in that information multiple ways, kind of like you’re talking to.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Listening to the book and reading it. And there’s multiple ways of taking it in. There’s a homework assignment. It’s like a bootcamp. And if you go to a bootcamp for fitness, one day for 30 days each day, you’ve got a separate lesson and a little bit of homework. So there, I mean, you got to dig a little bit and actually do something to get the benefit, but the end result is getting the skills and getting the knowledge and understanding that builds a strong relationship that can sustain, you know, the kind of the struggles of life and helps you take the pause button off and get back to being in relationships.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So what I like about it, a lot of men don’t want to do therapy. I mean, just to be blunt, it’s the husbandbootcamp.com It’s tamed for men. Men don’t love therapy traditionally, but
Jason: if there’s any women listening to. They can enroll
Dr. Lee Baucom: their husband. They can enroll, their husband will have a process for doing that and blend it into the hip.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Hey, look, what I got for ya, Merry Christmas. But, um, it it’s designed so that, um, you, you get the skills without having to, you know, feel like you’re on the spot and therapy or talking with a therapist or a coach or whatever, both of which can be very good things, but sometimes you’d just rather get that information and take it in and master it.
Dr. Lee Baucom: And this is the way of doing it really by yourself. In fact, my guess is there’ll be a lot of people who are doing this course and their spouse won’t even know what don’t, you see the results of it.
Jason: Right. And they can, can they sign up somewhere or what, what do they do? Um, cause I know, I know that it’s not done yet.
Jason: Right. I mean, the course itself is done.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So we’re putting on the finishing pieces, uh, of all the pieces. So we’ve got to get the structure so that we make sure everybody has a great experience, but we already have a place that you can get more information by going to the husband, bootcamp.com, trying to be real creative with VRL right.
Dr. Lee Baucom: The husband bootcamp.com. And you can even get a little discount if you sign up before we launch. Um, but that’s the place to get some information.
Jason: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. I mean, we can probably go on for another hour or two, my phone, I don’t know about you guys. My phone is blowing up. I have 400 text messages, all kinds of, I mean, like when I’m on this, Jason, what I was gonna say is like, when I doing nothing,
Jason: me a text message. Like, where is everybody on board? Like, what’s going on? Like the minute I have something to do, it’s like blowing. It’s like blowing up. So. It’s a, it never fails whenever I’m on this podcast. I can’t tell you how all of a sudden, all of a sudden everybody needs me, but when I’m sitting home bored, I got nothing to do.
Jason: Like I’m like staring at my phone. It’s like, nobody’s like, you know, can’t get anybody where the hell is it everybody.
Dr. Lee Baucom: So that’s the sign that you can turn and say, Hey to your wife, Hey, you want to take a walk? Yeah.
Jason: Like, look, we need to have a, we need to have a second part of this because, um, I have an 18 month old and I have an eight year old.
Jason: So taking walks don’t happen very often. The only thing that happens is the baby goes to sleep at six 30 or seven. I, I laid up a cigar and I hang out on the deck and I have a cigar. But, um, it’s hard to, it’s hard to do some of these, like these things that you talk about, like just like take a walk.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Um, when you have.
Dr. Lee Baucom: You have to be getting more creative, but that will change. And what you’re trying to do is lay the groundwork now for how you maintain that connection through the difficult years. I mean, raising kids when they’re young, it’s a challenge. It’s time consuming, but what’s worth it. Is that. So Kevin, when you get to that place, where, where are they now you’re ready to get back to the relationship and you have somewhere, you both want to go.
Jason: That’s cool. Thank you everybody. The husbandbootcamp.com, like you said, they can sign up. Um, they get on a waiting list and you’re going to give them a discount basically was,
Dr. Lee Baucom: and you get a discount. If you get on that waiting list feed for we launch and we’re, we’re not far from launching. So the, like that.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Sounds
Jason: good. Lee, thank you so much for your time. We, we truly, we enjoyed it. Um, I think since the day that we’ve met Kevin and I have been asking you because we, we felt like we are your number one, uh, target. Um, but yeah, I mean, there’s so much, it’s, you know, I there’s just so much to this, you know, there’s so much to, you know, like I, I say to my wife all the time, I’m like, you have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.
Jason: Like what, like, she had no idea about all these problems I was having with the mortgage, you know, because I’m because I’m a business owner. Like she had no idea. Like I, like when I was going through at all, like I just closed my door and I just deal with it or like our business when a client or whatever, like.
Jason: She literally has no idea what
Dr. Lee Baucom: happens when I closed the door and maybe part
Kevin: two can be a, we just throw Michelle and Jessica on, on an interview with, uh, with Lee.
Jason: There you go. But no, I mean, there’s, there’s just, so there’s just so much because you know, uh, you know, there there’s a lot, there’s a lot between kids and the wife and the, or the husband and the business, you know?
Jason: Um, it’s a lot.
Dr. Lee Baucom: Yeah, yeah. It’s a lot. And yet that is the relationship that most people put right at the top of what they want to have and what they want to hold on to
Jason: awesomely. Thank you so much. We’re going to do this again
Dr. Lee Baucom: for sure. Yeah. Thanks for having me. You got it.
Kevin: Really great guy. Jason, Lee’s awesome.
Kevin: A really smart guy. He’s got like tons of books. He’s written tons of books. He’s got this online program. Um, I’m gonna check it out for sure. Um, but really awesome. I had fun with
Jason: that competition. I really likely he’s definitely or Dr. Lee and it
Kevin: wasn’t sure if I should call him Dr. Lee or not. He’s just like a nice guy.
Kevin: And there’s another one of those conversations that could have, could have went on forever and maybe we’ll have him on again. Yep. I’ll talk to him after about part two, having our wives on. See what happens. I don’t know. Did we say that on the podcast? I don’t remember. I don’t know either. Anyway. Um, thank you guys so much for joining us and listening as always, you can check us out at e-commerceuncensored.com and we’ll talk to you guys real soon
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